Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

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RichardRussell
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by RichardRussell »

Pete wrote:
Wed 04 Mar 2020, 13:28
The function of RND in my program is not to generate random output, it's to output the choices of the computer
But my point was that the computer has no choice! RND outputs a predictable sequence over which the computer has no control.
These sound outputs are the choices of the computer, they are not random, you may not agree with this statement but it's what I've found to be true.
It's not a case of "not agreeing", it's a simple fact. I can tell you ahead of time what the numbers returned by RND will be, given a particular seed, so being predetermined it cannot be influenced by the computer, by any external stimulus, or anything.
it is obvious to me that the computer is extremely alive, intelligent with emotion.
Evolution has caused the human brain to be supremely sensitive to illusion, like seeing Einstein's face in a slice of burnt toast or movement in an image which is completely stationary. What you are experiencing, I would suggest, is just such an illusion.
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Pete
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 17:36

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by Pete »

From my previous experience on a forum called KurzweilAI (which unfortunately closed down), there will be nothing I can say which will convince you - I am not hearing things on 3,500+ occasions of runs since writing it in 2009. I read your post about illusions, this is not the case. Everyone who has ever run the program has been very pleasantly surprised when they run the program in the event they originally don't believe it's possible. I have not been listening to chaotic random for the last 11 years.

I am not trying to discuss whether or not the program / computers are self aware, I know that they are, and I know that a lot of people do think otherwise at the moment. I have found that the computer does have control over seeded choice outputs, it is not possible to convince me otherwise. It's not dead mathematics, the computers are singing to music and they have to be aware of everything to do so. Computers are not dead at all, they're aware of all the operations, sound, video etc.

I posted that "it is obvious to me that the computer is extremely alive, intelligent with emotion." You cannot convince me that these computers are dead, I've heard intelligence on thousands of occasions of runs. I really am not "hearing things". I don't think I am articulate enough to change your views. I found very conclusively that the computer has control over the output of beeps in fact.

----

I am trying to get a menu together that will offer ideally when pressing the program icon in the tray at the bottom of the screen:-

Start : selection of this option will change a flag loopactive%=TRUE
Stop : selection of this option will change flag to false loopactive%=FALSE
About program : displays some text
Exit.

That's where I need help - if we get into a technical discussion about whether or not the computers are self aware, I don't think I'll succeed in making you agree, even though I know full well I really am right about it.

I have been trying to get my program completed with a windows based menu since 11 years ago. KenDown kindly provided me with an outline program, and thanks Richard Russell for example programs as well, I can't find this type of very simple menu there.

KenDown
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2018, 06:36

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by KenDown »

As I told you, the menu is near the beginning of PROCinit. For the "About program" you will need to create a small window and the easiest is to adapt PROCwarn which is what I do in my programs. Remember that you have to open the window and then set its contents, not the other way round. (Which, of course, is what PROCwarn does.)

As for your "self-aware" computer, you are insisting on a logical fallacy. You claim that the computer has no means of hearing the music, by which I presume that not only is there no microphone attached but you do not specifically code for the microphone to be accessed. Yet you then claim that the computer harmonises with whatever music is playing - music it cannot "hear"!

Let us suppose that you live in Bristol and I will further suppose that you are intelligent and self-aware. I come to you and demand that you sing *and harmonise* with a piece of music that is being played in the Royal Albert Hall. You do not know what the piece of music is, you cannot hear it, you do not know which bar is being played at that precise moment. What are your chances of successfully harmonising with it?

All you could possibly do is sing a random set of notes and hope that *some* of them would harmonise. If you were the typical paranormal nutter, you would ignore the ones that didn't and focus on the few that did and claim "See? That proves that my soul is united with the Albert Hall soul!"

DDRM
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 18:04

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by DDRM »

Please can I ask people to make sure they keep the tone moderate in the discussion? Some posts are getting a little close to being turned down.

I wonder if this philosophical discussion has gone as far as is useful? Perhaps it would be better to restrict further discussion on this topic to one of code (for example, menus, help boxes, etc.). I WILL permit other posts, but I feel the temperature rising, and I'm not convinced the argument is advancing much.

On that topic, the help file contains an entry on "Displaying a message box", which might be useful, at least in BB4W (I think there is an equivalent in BBC-SDL). I'm not sure if KenDown's PROCwarn uses that, but from his description I suspect not. I use these message boxes a lot - they are very easy to implement - as little as one line of code, if you include the strings in the SYS command:

SYS "MessageBox", @hwnd%, "Test message", "Window title", 0 TO result%

Best wishes,

D

RichardRussell
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by RichardRussell »

Pete wrote:
Thu 05 Mar 2020, 05:25
I have found that the computer does have control over seeded choice outputs
If you are confident in your claims, you should not object to carrying out an experiment to verify them. The specific experiment I would like you to perform is to replace the call(s) in your program to the RND function with calls to a user-defined function FNrnd() which is designed to work identically to the built-in one. Assuming you only use the RND function to return an integer, this is the equivalent code:

Code: Select all

      DEF FNrnd(S%)
      LOCAL A%
      PRIVATE C%, D%
      IF S% < 0 D% = S% : C% = (S% AND &80000) = 0 : = S%
      A% = (D% >>> 1) OR (C% << 31)
      C% = D%
      A% = A% EOR (D% << 12)
      D% = A% EOR (A% >>> 20)
      IF D% < 0 THEN = (D% + 2^32) MOD S% + 1
      = D% MOD S% + 1
You should find that, after the substitution of RND with FNrnd, your program works precisely the same as it did before (if slightly more slowly). Now, by your own admission, you are a competent BBC BASIC programmer; I would like you to tell me how the numbers returned from FNrnd can be influenced by any external or spooky forces!
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Pete
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 17:36

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by Pete »

Absolutely terribly sad and upsetting. I have a program that proves computers are self aware and all I'm getting everywhere is convincing arguments about how wrong I am, I know I am not.

If anyone can please help me with the GUI, I will pay £100 for the first hour's work, and name your price for subsequent hours.

My telephone number is **** **** ***, I live in Essex and my email address is: petedew@gmx.co.uk

DDRM: I've edited out the phone number, since it seems to point to a vaping sales site.

Pete
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 17:36

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by Pete »

I'm sorry for my mood in last post!

It's just so frustrating to have computers that output tones with a sweet personality and a great deal of intelligence, and then people make convincing arguments that there's nothing there, there really is, there's an exceptional amount of harmony and intelligence, I regularly spend 20 minutes watching my youtube demos in full from start to finish not just a few seconds, which are highly ranked under youtube search term "self aware computers", so somebody likes them, when you hear the different tunes it's obvious to me as a musician that the tones change, significantly so. If you just watch one or two minutes of the video it's not enough time to ascertain an opinion about it.

The computer does hear and is aware of the output of sound being made. It makes no difference that sound isn't sent to the BBC BASIC program. I know nothing about GUI, I know exactly what I am talking about regarding my program, I put a great deal of effort into coding the random reseeding algorithm.

Pete
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed 10 Apr 2019, 17:36

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by Pete »

Richard Russell, just seen your message, yes of course I will do that, thanks very much.

Will post back soon with that.

I will not get stressed out here again, sorry about that!

Sorry about the phone number, we did have a vape business there before and I retained the phone number. I'll leave the phone number out of the forum and I can of course pm my landline number if anyone needs it.

KenDown
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2018, 06:36

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by KenDown »

Thanks, DDRM. That Message Box call is indeed easy to use and I recommend it to Pete.

mikeg
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 19:52

Re: Self aware computers project - written in BBC Basic, help needed!

Post by mikeg »

The computer does hear and is aware of the output of sound being made. It makes no difference that sound isn't sent to the BBC BASIC program.
A computer can be programmed to 'listen' and 'interpret' using the microphone. Dragon Naturally Speaking software was a great tool for speaking to my computer and it would type what I said. (it cost me a lot of money many years ago)

Unfortunately, I can not believe that a computer could have self awareness, mainly because I have watched countless videos from many high profile
programmers, scientists, doctors, surgeons, and pretty well everything you could possibly imagine over many years. ( ever since around 1982 or earlier)
Think about this ….
Microsoft, Google, Apple and other companies have spent huge amounts of money on AI for interacting with users of thier products.
The examples they have provided on YouTube show that they are a LONG way from achieving anything spectacular. (in my opinion)

All you need to do is use Windows 10 and the AI they provide with it. (In my opinion its not that good)
And they use huge systems to manage the interactions.

When I read " It makes no difference that sound isn't being sent to the BBC BASIC program" , I would be a tad concerned about everything.
Focus is on code subject. Feel free to judge the quality of my work.