Hosting Annual Renewal

Here you can talk about anything related to BBC BASIC, not covered in another category
DDRM
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 18:04

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by DDRM »

Hi Richard,

So do I conclude from your post about the console edition that you plan to let this forum fold, and we should transfer our interests to the Stardot forum:

https://stardot.org.uk/forums/index.php

... in the "miscellaneous/modern implementations of classic programming languages" section, or the groups.io forum:

https://groups.io/g/bb4w

or, if we are not interested in your response, to the "unofficial" forum here:

https://bbcbasic.freeforums.net/

Will you/would you like me to send a "closing email" to all users?

Best wishes,

D

RichardRussell
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by RichardRussell »

DDRM wrote:
Tue 30 Jun 2020, 09:46
Will you/would you like me to send a "closing email" to all users?
I hardly think an 'all user' email will be necessary when the total number of active users was, at the last count, four! :(

I tried (not for the first time) to boost the number of members by recently making a plea at the Discussion Group for people to join this forum in order to help save it. As far as I know, nobody did. :cry:
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RNBW
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 05 Apr 2018, 21:41

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by RNBW »

This forum has 547 members. At the time of writing there were 10 users online. When I view the forum, I hardly ever log in. I view and only log in if there is something that specifically interests me.

I think it is unfair and inaccurate to say that currently there are only 4 users.

As a matter of courtesy, I think that either a notice should be put up on the forum or an email be sent to members to let them know that the forum is closing down.

It is a sad to know that the forum is closing down, but I appreciate your reasons for doing so. However, you have outlined some of the alternatives, which should be repeated in the closing down notice or email to members. Personally, I hope users will move to the Freeforums site or Stardot, where I trust you will be very welcome. If you rely on the Facebook page then you will lose me.

There is no intent of critiscism in this posting. I think you have been forced into your position on the matter.

RichardRussell
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by RichardRussell »

RNBW wrote:
Thu 02 Jul 2020, 09:31
This forum has 547 members.
That's not representative of 'active' members. One of the shortcomings of phpBB is that it provides no mechanism for anybody to 'resign' (arguably illegal under European legislation) so anybody who has ever joined is counted in that total, even if they never viewed the forum at all!

To discover the true number of users I recently posted a poll. Although I was genuinely interested in the answer, the main objective was to ask an innocuous question to which everybody would be happy to reply, and to which there was a response appropriate to everybody. The total number of votes was four, so I am absolutely certain that it represents, to a close approximation, the number of active users.
As a matter of courtesy, I think that either a notice should be put up on the forum or an email be sent to members to let them know that the forum is closing down.
That's entirely up to the forum's admin (if indeed an all-member email is even possible: it was at the old Conforums forum but I'm not sure that phpBB supports it). I am certainly not going to take any action that could cause me to be held partially responsible for the forum closing!

I am actively engaged in developing BBC BASIC, most recently having released the new Console Mode editions. That is what interests me. I would do almost anything to be freed from the politics and machinations of this forum, but being held to blame for its closure would be even worse.
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RNBW
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 05 Apr 2018, 21:41

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by RNBW »

I don't think many, if any, blame you for the closure of the forum. You have made it clear (and I don't blame you) that you are not prepared to continuing funding the forum. Unless someone else agrees to fund it (and I'm not sure of the machinery for doing so - if there is any) then by default it will close.

Whilst I was writing my last post there were 10 viewing the site. After I finished there were 13. Currently it's back to 10. In your poll there were only 4 who bothered to vote. In any forum there are usually more registered members than people who view the site at any time, so I think your view is rather pessimistic, but I agree is a view you are entitled to hold.

My view is that, if the forum is going to close, then Admin should put up a notice in the forum stating this and identifying the known options for ongoing information about BBC Basic for Windows and BBC SDL.

Is it possible to produce a copy of the site that could be accessed somewhere, together with the Archives of the old BB4W and BBC Basic forums currently in Kendall Down's forum? It would be a shame to lose these.

RichardRussell
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by RichardRussell »

RNBW wrote:
Thu 02 Jul 2020, 11:03
You have made it clear (and I don't blame you) that you are not prepared to continuing funding the forum.
That's not quite what I said: I'm not prepared to continue funding the forum's storage and bandwidth if I cannot contribute to it. I'm more than happy to fund it if I can.

The choice is for me to continue to fund it and to continue to be able to post freely, but with many (most?) other members refusing to engage because they can't tolerate my style/attitude/whatever, or to absent myself from the forum (either voluntarily or having been banned by the admin) which would boost activity - as has been seen to happen in the past - but with me resenting having to fund a forum I can't use.
Whilst I was writing my last post there were 10 viewing the site. After I finished there were 13. Currently it's back to 10.
These are presumably bots, not humans!
In your poll there were only 4 who bothered to vote.
Anybody who couldn't be bothered to vote has disqualified themselves from being counted!
My view is that, if the forum is going to close, then Admin should put up a notice in the forum stating this and identifying the known options for ongoing information about BBC Basic for Windows and BBC SDL.
I'm sure David will take heed, but to be fair the options for obtaining support for BB4W and BBCSDL (we now need to add the Console Mode editions, but I haven't got an abbreviation!) have already been spelt out here.
Is it possible to produce a copy of the site that could be accessed somewhere, together with the Archives of the old BB4W and BBC Basic forums currently in Kendall Down's forum? It would be a shame to lose these.
I think Kendall's forum already links to the archives, doesn't it? There's nothing to stop him doing so.
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DDRM
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2018, 18:04

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by DDRM »

Hi Richard,

If there are only 4 active users of the forum, are there likely to be any that object to you posting? We know you, I and RNBW are active users, so that only leaves one other person who MIGHT object?

As you know, my view is that you are welcome to post, and anyone who doesn't like it can go elsewhere.

If you feel unable to use this forum, then it seems perfectly reasonable for you to close it, since you don't want to pay for it. I'd be sorry if you do, but it's your decision.

I won't be closing the forum, so I won't post anything saying it is closing unless you ask me to.

Best wishes,

D

RichardRussell
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by RichardRussell »

DDRM wrote:
Thu 02 Jul 2020, 15:13
If there are only 4 active users of the forum, are there likely to be any that object to you posting?
Probably not, but equally if there are only four active members there's no point keeping the forum open anyway! I'm not going to waste my time posting announcements if only four people will read them, and if any of those four people need support they can ask at one of the other forums or email me directly.

That was my point really: having established that there are only approximately four active members it seemed to me that the forum had to all intents and purposes 'closed itself'! I didn't think it needed any further discussion, announcements or anything: the decision had been taken by the members in deserting the forum en masse.
I won't be closing the forum, so I won't post anything saying it is closing unless you ask me to.
If you won't be closing the forum, what are your plans for it? Surely you're not proposing to keep it open for the 'benefit' of only four members (meaning that I would have to keep funding it)? If you have plans for changing its fortunes and somehow attracting new members that's great, but I'd be interested in knowing what those plans are.
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RNBW
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu 05 Apr 2018, 21:41

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by RNBW »

Richard

I don't believe that DDRM can close the forum. It is not his, it's yours. He can post your intentions to make members aware and he can resign his post, but he doesn't have your executive powers. I don't believe that he intends to pay to keep the forum going. He has done a sterling job in your absence, but I think that is as far as he intends to go.

To put it bluntly, the forum is yours. Anyone who disagrees with what you say has the choice of remaining or they can leave. That would be my attitude. If these members have special attributes, they have not shown it much, if at all, in the last few months. If it is that you close down the forum, they won't have a voice here anyway. So why not say to hell with them, come back to the forum. It is always more active when you are contributing.

You have my support whichever decision you make, because you are so entitled. My last words on the subject, I promise.

Ray

RichardRussell
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: Hosting Annual Renewal

Post by RichardRussell »

RNBW wrote:
Thu 02 Jul 2020, 19:10
I don't believe that DDRM can close the forum. It is not his, it's yours.
I've made it clear on multiple occasions that the Liberty BASIC model is the one I prefer and it's the one I'm trying to follow. In that model the forum is adminstered by users, independently of the author of the language it is supporting. I do control the hosting of this forum, that is unavoidable because I currently own the bbcbasic.co.uk domain (although that may change soon) but I have no wish to administer the forum and I cannot be forced to by you or by anybody else. :shock:
I don't believe that he intends to pay to keep the forum going.
Nobody has ever suggested that David should pay anything: where did that idea come from? If he wants to keep the forum going (even for as few as four members) and I can continue to post, then I will continue to pay. I've said that consistently.
It is always more active when you are contributing.
That flies in the face of the evidence. Compare the activity at the forum now with what it was whilst I voluntarily withdrew, and with the period when I was moderated. During both periods activity was much higher than it is today.
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