In-browser BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0

New releases of BB4W and BBCSDL, and other updates, will be announced here
RichardRussell
Site Admin
Posts: 593
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: In-browser BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0

Post by RichardRussell »

mikeg wrote:
Mon 26 Oct 2020, 03:51
I was using google
Do you mean Chrome? You need at least version 87 of Chrome for BBC BASIC to work.

Can I remind you (and everybody) that one reason why the in-browser edition of BBC BASIC has only just become available is that the browser features necessary for its operation were only introduced recently (in the last few weeks in most cases). They would have been supported much earlier had it not been for the Spectre and Meltdown exploits, but disabling them was necessary as a protection.

Only now have ways been found to enable those features safely, which means you need the latest Browser versions to support them and to run BBC BASIC. If your hardware is so old that you cannot install Vivaldi it will probably never be able to run the in-browser edition of BBC BASIC (and remember that the in-browser edition is 3-4 times slower than the native edition, so it might be unusably slow anyway).
I am suffering from 'cognitive decline' and depression. If you have a comment about the style or tone of this message please report it to the moderators by clicking the exclamation mark icon, rather than complaining on the public forum.

mikeg
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 19:52

Re: In-browser BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0

Post by mikeg »

Richard have you done any testing on a Chromebook? Before I decided to get my AMD based Dell laptop, the store introduced me to the Chromebook. Do you have suggestions on that device for BBC Basic use? Would BBCSDL or BBC Basic work on such a device or would only the browser version work? I did not buy a Chromebook, but I would like to know what you think of it.
Focus is on code subject. Feel free to judge the quality of my work.

RichardRussell
Site Admin
Posts: 593
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: In-browser BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0

Post by RichardRussell »

mikeg wrote:
Sat 07 Nov 2020, 02:55
Richard have you done any testing on a Chromebook?
Yes, it runs on a Chromebook but (at least on mine) very slowly. It may be different now, but when I bought my Chromebook a couple of years ago one of their 'claims to fame' was long battery life, and whilst that was true it was achieved at the cost of a low-power CPU - in every sense! So with the additional factor of running in WebAssembly (which I benchmarked at about one-third the speed of native code) the performance, especially with dynamic graphics programs, isn't great!

I'm not inclined to buy a new Chromebook just to discover how much that may have changed, but if you have one (or somebody else does) I would be interested to learn how it performs. There is of course the additional factor that whilst a Chromebook behaves like a laptop you cannot run any of the 'desktop' editions of BBC BASIC, so you lose capabilities such as the IDE, debugger, profiler, multiple windows and so on. It's not a platform on which software development in BBC BASIC would be 'comfortable'.

The new Raspberry Pi 400 might be a better alternative if you're looking for a cheap computing platform, because that should run the desktop edition of BBCSDL at a respectable speed.
I am suffering from 'cognitive decline' and depression. If you have a comment about the style or tone of this message please report it to the moderators by clicking the exclamation mark icon, rather than complaining on the public forum.

mikeg
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 19:52

Re: In-browser BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0

Post by mikeg »

The new Raspberry Pi 400 might be a better alternative if you're looking for a cheap computing platform
I have the RPi3 kit with keyboard, mouse, and all the perks. I do like the one you linked. It will be a while before I get another one, but maybe by that time the price will drop.

I am also watching closely the RISC-V CPU open standard instruction set architecture and even got to watch it with other hardware run Quake from ID software. It is pricy and new and apparently is supposed to be the next big thing and is already being slated for integration with new systems. ( So now I know what David Williams was talking about)- I see that there is a version of Basic for RISC OS.

This YouTube link not only explains what apparently is happening and even apparently shows how easy the system is to adapt.( even shows playing Quake on the screen as he explains) https://youtu.be/L8jqGOgCy5M

That link is to a very tech smart guy that has tried almost anything you can imagine with hardware and even has been invited to look at a lab with a quantum computer.
Apparently, you CAN buy the RISC based computer he shows, but I think I will wait. (its very expensive)

Not saying RISC is new. Apparently it has been around for a long time.
Focus is on code subject. Feel free to judge the quality of my work.

RichardRussell
Site Admin
Posts: 593
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: In-browser BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0

Post by RichardRussell »

mikeg wrote:
Sun 08 Nov 2020, 22:10
I am also watching closely the RISC-V CPU open standard instruction set architecture
I can't see the point of it. It appears to have a fairly conventional architecture and instruction set, so is unlikely to outperform ARM or x86. Its only USP seems to be that it's an Open standard, but whilst that may make some people feel good what's the practical benefit?
I am suffering from 'cognitive decline' and depression. If you have a comment about the style or tone of this message please report it to the moderators by clicking the exclamation mark icon, rather than complaining on the public forum.

mikeg
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat 23 Jun 2018, 19:52

Re: In-browser BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0

Post by mikeg »

but whilst that may make some people feel good what's the practical benefit?
From what they are saying, basically its about costs of getting license for using the technology and apparently from what was said in the video, efficiency is better due to the reduced instruction set, which is likely not to change but can be expanded upon .. eg Nividia being able to integrate RISC into their graphics systems and increasing efficiency. Apparently, RAM is integrated within the CPU. Also, apparently, a far future version of RISC code and the such would work in old systems, so backwards compatibility is a big thing. Because of the fact that it is OPEN SOURCE, it is unlikely to disappear as a technology and a huge list of companies are behind it.. ( pretty much everyone) So RISC technology will be in pretty much every device. I have even seen some RPi applications too.

As in the video, he mentioned that it will be a while before we see dedicated computers with RISC everything, but apparently I have located quite a few boards that are around $700 CAN that are pretty much similar to RPi in construction.

These are the guys behind RISC V (links for hardware and the such under ( Products )
https://www.sifive.com/resources/

Again, it is unlikely that I will get one, as the most recent one I looked at was almost $1000 CAN...
Focus is on code subject. Feel free to judge the quality of my work.

RichardRussell
Site Admin
Posts: 593
Joined: Tue 15 Oct 2019, 09:10

Re: In-browser BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0

Post by RichardRussell »

mikeg wrote:
Sun 08 Nov 2020, 23:20
From what they are saying, basically its about costs of getting license for using the technology
But to be competitive with other ISAs a manufacturer would have to invest many millions in developing silicon. Somebody's going to have to pay for that, so I can't see that reduced licensing costs would make much difference.
efficiency is better due to the reduced instruction set
But ARM is RISC (arguably it's the original RISC CPU architecture) so that's not an argument for RISC-V outperforming other ISAs.
Apparently, RAM is integrated within the CPU.
Also true of all other modern CPUs; the Intel Core i7 in this laptop has 4 Mbytes of RAM.

I am willing to bet that RISC-V will remain no more than a niche product and will never be competitive with ARM or x86.

Anyway it is completely off topic for this thread, and indeed for this forum.
I am suffering from 'cognitive decline' and depression. If you have a comment about the style or tone of this message please report it to the moderators by clicking the exclamation mark icon, rather than complaining on the public forum.